Discussion – zoroark-gx or not zoroark-gx page 2 pokébeach.com forums

It makes zero sense from a business standpoint to observe the popularity of Zoroark-GX, see that an alternate art (an alternate hard to find art, at that) has been printed in Japan, and then ban it (closing off probably the BIGGEST selling point of a reprint English/Europe/everywhere else Ultra Shiny set). From a business standpoint, they won’t close the door off to a possible Shiny Zoroark-GX.

Currently, yes, Expanded is a bit of a mess. And the biggest culprit at the moment is the "Exodia" combo (Red Card + Sky Field + Delinquent + Peeking Red Card). The combo itself CAN be done on turn 1 and drop you to a 1 card hand, that 1 card, if it’s a good one (like Professor Sycamore), can be whisked away and potentially have you dead draw into something.

You then strart your turn with another card, MAYBE something good. Maybe not. But the fact that the deck can get this insane combo out turn 1, as well as do it with enoygh consistency to get Top 4 in Anaheim; should raise some flags.

TPCi have made a stance to make it to where players have at least a turn to respond and be able to play the game (Wally ban) before they get locked out of their minds. Having your hand struck down to one, where you MIGHT draw out of it, is debatable as to if that qualifies as being able to "play the game" and if they’ll do anything about it.

Delinquent uses your supporter for the turn, requires a stadium in play, and the opponent gets to choose which 3 cards to discard. All sounds fair–at face value. The problem is that, if you have Red Card banned, an opponent can STILL DO THE COMBO using something like SHL Marshadow and having Delinquent in the discard pile (to be retrieved by VS Seeker) and happening to draw into Peeking Red Card.

Click to expand…There are inherent differences between the energies. First off, the type specific special energies are obviously not as versatile as Rainbow, DCE, and Counter. Counter only works on non GXs and while behind on prizes. Rainbow can be easily replaced by a basic energy in any deck that doesn’t specifically rely on RB. This leaves DCE, which is the most unique, in that nothing else can really do what it can. I don’t see this as a bad thing, and it doesn’t make the card broken.

Then let’s say DCE does get banned, now we’re stuck with Dark Patch Zoro decks, or Vikavolt Zoro decks, or some other crazy combination that’s essentially energy acceleration + Zoroark. Decks will be pretty boring then because it will all be about energy acceleration. Then everyone will move on to discussing Dark Patch, Water Patch, Naganadel/Quagsre, etc. bans because of what it enables.

The true problem is expanded format itself. It is too large for it to be a competitively viable format, compared to Standard which is a lot more curated. Too many cards that were created during a time when other cards weren’t even considered to be a thing. Look at Sky Field and Zoro, or Delinquent and Marshadow, or the Espeon EX spread decks.

Click to expand…Ultra Ball is a great example actually. This card hasn’t ever been in the history of the game. We had to use Supporters or things like Dual Ball and Pokemon Communication to find Pokemon, which could fail or couldn’t always be played. Pidgeot FRLG was the best way to find a Pokemon you needed. Now, Ultra Ball shouldn’t be on the radar since I find it to be a rather harmless card but if it should be banned, it should be banned for the same reason Pot of Greed is banned in Yu-Gi-Oh and that’s the "after" effect of it is too strong. A player with a hand size of two (after getting outplayed by an opponent) top decks an Ultra Ball, plays it and discards the only two cards in hand, searches for a Shaymin-EX, plays it and +6, plays more cards and drops a Professor Sycamore and then +6 again, drops DCE and wins the game. That one card let him (or her, I’m not sexist) +12 completely new cards for the win. This happens WAY too much in the game. One single card won the match. Many without bias would see this as being something too strong because of the combos it enables. One for One in Yu-Gi-Oh was also banned for this reason.

Ultra Ball is a great example actually. This card hasn’t ever been in the history of the game. We had to use Supporters or things like Dual Ball and Pokemon Communication to find Pokemon, which could fail or couldn’t always be played. Pidgeot FRLG was the best way to find a Pokemon you needed. Now, Ultra Ball shouldn’t be on the radar since I find it to be a rather harmless card but if it should be banned, it should be banned for the same reason Pot of Greed is banned in Yu-Gi-Oh and that’s the "after" effect of it is too strong. A player with a hand size of two (after getting outplayed by an opponent) top decks an Ultra Ball, plays it and discards the only two cards in hand, searches for a Shaymin-EX, plays it and +6, plays more cards and drops a Professor Sycamore and then +6 again, drops DCE and wins the game. That one card let him (or her, I’m not sexist) +12 completely new cards for the win. This happens WAY too much in the game. One single card won the match. Many without bias would see this as being something too strong because of the combos it enables. One for One in Yu-Gi-Oh was also banned for this reason.

Zoroark-GX as a card does not seem to be a problem if you look at it on its own. It’s strong as an individual card, but the issue lies with how many cards it combos with and what kinds of things it enables. The combos I’m speaking of are multiple card combos that enable strong plays (Double Puzzle of Time, Red Card / Stadium / Delinquent / Peeking Red Card). Also, in Expanded, the main downsides of Zoroark-GX are negated as Trade normally requires you to give up a card, but Propagation Exeggcute removes this downside, Riotous Beating’s Damage Cap is raised to OHKO potential with Sky Field, and Ditto Prism Star gives you a fifth Zorua and helps setting up.

What I’m getting at is that banning enabling cards reduces the playability of other decks in the format, and any one card wouldn’t be sufficient. Zoroark-GX has been very dominant for a long time in Expanded and I think has shown in enough circumstances that it’s worthy of a ban. It’s hard to say whether Pokemon will do that, as Zoroark-GX doesn’t directly keep your opponent from playing the game, but I feel it’s probably a better reason than what they verbalized for Puzzle of Time.